PC settings, and battery problems.

[ducati]

Can anyone explain why I need plus 30 at idle, or the bike runs shitty, yet the next cells are below zero, ranging out to minus 30 in the upper rev range? It seems illogical to have such a huge 'boost' at idle, and then lean off drastically almost immediately afterwards.
The reason I ask is I now have a massive flat spot that will stall the engine every time I move off, unless I rev it carefully to above 4k. I have increased the fuel pressure,[to 40psi] on the assumption my injectors don't like 36psi, and small injector opening times. I removed more fuel overall on the map to compensate for this, but the flat spot off idle is not much better.
There is also an issue with the battery going slowly flat, since installing the PC and injectors.
Do high impedance injectors require a diode or something to prevent them from backflowing through the PC??
I have a 26milliamp drain constantly on my battery that wasn't there before, and I have checked, and rechecked my wiring with a high resistance quality digital multimeter. Incredibly, I disconnected all terminals to the battery, and still have voltage in the injector circuit!! This voltage slowly drains from around 11.9 down to zero, like a capacitor would normally do, so I assume [again!] something in the PC is giving me grief....
PC is from a 2003 Hyabusa.
Who Knows?? All suggestions gratefully accepted!

[Lorcan]

Can you post a screenshot of your map? What injectors are you using?

[ducati]

Here ya go Lorc.......
Injectors are Bosch 431's, I think 350cc@42.5 psi high impedance.
What annoys me more than anything is this problem was not here when I was running stupid rich!

4 11 10 off idle richer.djm

(3.83 KiB) Downloaded 297 times

[tack1000]

Can anyone explain why I need plus 30 at idle, or the bike runs shitty, yet the next cells are below zero, ranging out to minus 30 in the upper rev range? It seems illogical to have such a huge 'boost' at idle, and then lean off drastically almost immediately afterwards.
The reason I ask is I now have a massive flat spot that will stall the engine every time I move off, unless I rev it carefully to above 4k. I have increased the fuel pressure,[to 40psi] on the assumption my injectors don't like 36psi, and small injector opening times. I removed more fuel overall on the map to compensate for this, but the flat spot off idle is not much better.
There is also an issue with the battery going slowly flat, since installing the PC and injectors.
Do high impedance injectors require a diode or something to prevent them from backflowing through the PC??
I have a 26milliamp drain constantly on my battery that wasn't there before, and I have checked, and rechecked my wiring with a high resistance quality digital multimeter. Incredibly, I disconnected all terminals to the battery, and still have voltage in the injector circuit!! This voltage slowly drains from around 11.9 down to zero, like a capacitor would normally do, so I assume [again!] something in the PC is giving me grief....
PC is from a 2003 Hyabusa.
Who Knows?? All suggestions gratefully accepted!

I also have that problem; if I leave the bike (racing bike) I always disconnect the plug going to the injectors. The drain then stops. If I don't it will wreck the battery in 10 days as it will be totally flat and won’t take a charge.

I am sorry that does not sort it but at lease you now know you are not alone.

Tack1000

[ducati]

Thanks Tack, your right! it does feel better to know I'm not alone with this battery drainage problem. I am considering installing a relay over the power circuit to the injectors, effectively isolating them unless the ignition is on. Trouble with this idea is, of course, I will have installed another possible breakdown point in the circuit, should the relay fail. For the moment though, I'm just keeping the battery on trickle charge. Do you think four diodes between the injectors and the PC outputs would also solve the problem......or create new ones?

[Lorcan]

Here ya go Lorc.......
Injectors are Bosch 431's, I think 350cc@42.5 psi high impedance.
What annoys me more than anything is this problem was not here when I was running stupid rich!

4 11 10 off idle richer.djm

I can't open that map as I don't have the correct version of the DJ software. Can you post a screenshot instead?

Odd about the current drain, as the stock injectors are wired in permanently live as stock. Never had that problem, but then I always left my bike on an Optimate when not using it for long periods.

[tack1000]

Here ya go Lorc.......
Injectors are Bosch 431's, I think 350cc@42.5 psi high impedance.
What annoys me more than anything is this problem was not here when I was running stupid rich!

4 11 10 off idle richer.djm

I can't open that map as I don't have the correct version of the DJ software. Can you post a screenshot instead?

Odd about the current drain, as the stock injectors are wired in permanently live as stock. Never had that problem, but then I always left my bike on an Optimate when not using it for long periods.

I think that answers why then, as if I do this you would be none the wiser.
It's not just the racing bike; my road bike did the same thing if left and that was wired in as the suggested method.

[tack1000]

screen shot PC.jpg (126.46 KiB) Viewed 5981 times

Your map ducati at Idle, hope that helps Lorc.

[kawasakiman542]

My bike with the pc does the same thing, If I don't ride it for 3 or 4 days, I have to charge the battery.
Ducati, that is not plus, that is minus. I think I run -33 at idle.

[Lorcan]

Ok and what have you set 0% "throttle" to - atmospheric? With the bike running or not?

[ducati]

My bike will not idle at 500rpm, it will only let me have around 1000-1250rpm as a minimum. I have set the 500/0 much leaner, hoping this will help prevent hard starting when hot, and the values have been lowered [leaned]from plus 30 to [hopefully]accomodate a higher fuel pressure.
My memory is not fantastic....... . fuel pressure is obviously set at 42psi, not 40, too!
So it is still the highest value on the map, at the lowest rev point, this does not seem right to me, unless the 4point/hole injectors do not like smaller values, at lower revs. Can anyone confirm this??
As it is right now, the bike would be happier with plus 25, rather than the 15 it has now, but starting when hot gets a bit iffy with the larger value. I have just changed my coils from dyna greens3ohm, to dyna greys2.2ohm, so my starting problems may improve with the right coils in place at last.
It is Wet season in Darwin right now, so the bike does not get ridden often, and leaving it for 4days is the maximum before a flat battery prevents play.
Hard wiring the battery positive to the injectors without even a fuse inline seems nuts to me, yet this is what we have. Maybe this should be changed, as I'm sure the manufacturers of the PC never intended their product to be used on such an antiquainted setup.
It's also strange that Big K install a relay for the fuel pump, but didn't wire the injectors through this circuit. Maybe that's something to look at......

[ducati]

Lorcan wrote...
"Ok and what have you set 0% "throttle" to - atmospheric? With the bike running or not?"
Throttle position setting atmospheric 4950 at idle, [1000-1250rpm] and around 15000 at the high point.The idle numbers change upwards slightly when the bike gets hot. When I first set this the PC told me it was not happy with the parameters, but seeing I had nothing else to offer it, it is what it is!

[Lorcan]

Ok, one last question:

When the bike is idling, and you watch the PC on screen, does the live cell move around to the 2 and 5% columns or does it stay in the 0 column?

Even modern setups like the Motec on Storm have the injectors hardwired permanently live. There is no circuit though, as they are only earthed by the ECU. I think it's done like this for EMF noise reasons.

[ducati]

With the bike running, and the PC connected to my laptop, the active cell will randomly move to the 2% column, which is why the numbers are the same in the 0, and 2% columns at idle. This is me trying to stabilise fuel delivery so the primary chain doesn't slap so much. I have experimented with the "throttle" position setting, and the lower I set the number, the more stable the active cell is, up to a point where it will only stay in the 2% column, which is obviously too much. I have noticed moving the TPS will also change this number slightly, and the "Throttle" position is a slightly higher value once the engine is hot. I have set it in the middle of the two extremes, which is 4950
I removed the whole fuel system, and redid my inlet rubbers recently, trying to remove any possiblity of an air leak, as my vacuum/boost gauge was jumping about alarmingly at idle. Doing this improved things a little, but my main problem is still the horrid flat spot off idle, which is still there.
My gauge is a cheapy, not liquid filled, which does not help the fluttering problem
Initially, when the bike fires up[after another battery charge :x ] the flat spot is not there, until the bike warms up, and at the first stop/lights the problem shows up. I try to only change settings with the bike hot, after a reasonable ride, and the settings on the low speed section of the map reflect me trying to compromise between flat spot, and a decent idle.

Hey Tack, thanks for posting the screenshot BTW

[tack1000]

Hello

Stop the BUS, I've had a hard day so may be way off here. You type as if you are using the TPS as the throttle control on the PC.
Where as you should be using the boost pressure to control the throttle postion on the PC.

Please for the sake of clarity tell us you have set the lower boost at normal zero pressure (atmospheric) and used some sort of pump to generate the upper boost pressure and at what pressure was this then set to.

OR

You are using the TPS as if it was a normal bike to control the PC

Tack1000