Another Day at the Dyno and Further Problems

[Mang]

OK a bright start and another day of mixed results.

Warmed the bike up and the first run in race mode with new coils and alot of hope.

First run a reassuring 160 bhp and revving cleanly to 8750 at 17PSI and a couple of runs to replicate this. For the record my bike taps off the TPS for the power commander grey wire and the turbo voltage is inputted separately into the PCV.

My problem - which has dogged me for the whole of this project is when the bike gets hot bit wont rev freely passed about 8000 even with adjusting the fueling up and down and backing off the turbo it just wont replicate what it does on the first few runs once it gets hot.

I have tried to down load below the dyno runs and logs - the dyno print out shows what happens at the beginning of the day with the top two traces and at the end of the day the bottom two traces same map and conditions except hotter.

The log shows the behaviour of the TPS red, RPM black, PSI blue AFR purple for the last two stuttery runs.

My suspicions lie with electrical but I wonder if it could be something else? I really am at a loss with what to do next and was thinking about a different hobby such as model aicraft on the way back.

Ignore the comments at the bottom of the dyno charts they don't describe what is happening, the set up is described earlier.



Sorry this really is a screen shot as my logging laptop has no internet connectivity at the moso i took a photo of it



The drop in turbo pressure as the revs start to dance I believe is due to the revs being inconsistent and not running efficiently to generate boost.

Should I abandon the TPS to the PC and run boost to the Grey wire????

i genuinely am at the end of my tether with the F@@@ing bike. Its been a money pit and a series of let downs (probably due to my incompetence).

I am at the point of giving up.

[Turbo Pete]

Hi Mang, I am probably the least experienced when it comes to dyno work, but just had a possible thought. Since it seems to be heat related, usually electrical components suffer he most at this time, have you swapped out the pickups on the crank? Is the clearances from the spinny do-dad to the pick ups ok? Its not all expanding by that bee's dick thickness and causing contact which may make it miss?

[gazza]

tune by boost in theory you can have full boost on closed throttle
are the injectors clean had very similar down to dirty injectors (old fuel gum) would run like shit when hot

[gazza]

grey wire boost
not tps it can be done on both but gets very complicated
don't give up you will get there

[gazza]

read this applies to pcv as well
http://www.750turbo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4790
and last page here http://www.750turbo.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&start=60
keep going

[Kawadoodle]

Mang stick with it. Have you still got the sparks issue. If it was me I would continue to look in that area. I presume you have some known good parts to try sustituting,. If it was me I'd start with the next easiest thing firstly the igniter, then the pick ups, then you've covered the ignition. I would next try the ecu. Most of this you can do at the dyno. Check the simple stuff before pulling out the buried parts because you might lose the fault along the way by disturbing too much. If you think injectors are sticking when hot you could even try something like cooling them gently with freezer aerosol or something before pulling them out.

[gazza]

When it happened to mine injectors were not sticking spray pattern was shit and very little atomisation of the fuel, ok when cold and defiantly no good when hot and remember are bikes get very hot on the dyno
vinegar in ultrasonic bath will do the trick
not saying this is the same problem as yours just a possibility

[dazbo]

Have you tried mapping it to say 13psi with repeatable runs up to 9500rpm,even when hot.
How much time has elapsed between the first good runs and the last dodgy ones , and what have you been upto in-between.
What fuel are you using? Detonation will rear it's ugly head earlier when the engine is hot.

[dazbo]

I know you said to ignore the comments but the boost sensor is still connected to the kawasaki ecu isn't it?

[Mang]

Having had a few hours to think about things I wonder if the issue is fueling on boost and the dreaded TPS/boost voltage combo into the PCV being my problem. I woke up in the night unable to return to sleep so went and had a play with the bike to do a compression test and check the plugs from the last runs - compresion was good, stuck a camera down the bores and everything looked good but the plugs were displaying lean running. Hence my suspicion re the fuelling so it may not be electrical but all will be checked. I think in line with popular opinion I am going to abandon the TPS/boost combo into the PCV and put the boost voltage diret to the TPS input on the PCV.

I believe there is a map on here somewhere for such a set up with 370 injectors - can anyone point me in the right direction?

I would like to try and eliminate the pick up problem as the one thing I intend changing before I go to the dyno again. I will take a spare igniter and ecu with me. I have a set of pickups on my roadbike that i can take off for testing but they are pretty manky (cracked wires) and wondered if anyone had a spare known working set I could BORROW!

In answer to earlier questions:-

-The injectors are brand new and have only done a few hours - they were cleaned before I put them back in before Christmas so my concerns do not lie there but yet again I will check.

-Sparks are big and juicy now.

-"Have you tried mapping it to say 13psi with repeatable runs up to 9500rpm,even when hot" yes - yesterday and could not get past 7750 rpm. without popping and farting (the bike not me)

So i havent thrown in the towel yet. Model aircraft on hold.

(I only visited this site to get a petrol cap rubber seal!)

[JezZedexE1]

You will get there, you know you will. We shall never surrender!

So i havent thrown in the towel yet. Model aircraft on hold.

Saw this and thought of your plan.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Plug-P ... Sw0KJanWQS

[mankam]

Hi Mang, I am sure there will be a solution, don't give up!
Run the Throttle Opening Angle Signal Test (chapter 3.17)
Engine Speed Signal test (chapter 3.18)
Engine Temperature Signal Test (chapter 3.20)

These test is very simple from the Ecu wiring

Try grey wire boost not tps connection

Keep us up to date

[dazbo]

Mang, do you have any spare channel's on the data logger, and any access to an oscilloscope?
I'm thinking you could maybe log fuel pressure and also check injector duration during the run.
Although I think using boost input rather than tps is the way to go it still doesn't explain why there are big differences between runs. You need to identify what is changing from one run to the next.
Did the dyno guy notice if the pcv was operating in the expected map bins on the later runs.

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Hi Mang...this is Lorcan's Map with 370s and bigger turbo link.

http://www.750turbo.com/forum/viewtopic ... 61#p151138

[Arktasian]

Not really clear on how your set up provides for logging etc. but you mentioned the plugs looked "lean". That wouldn't jive with the afr readings on the bottom chart of your dyno run where it seems things are staying nice and rich? (although a plug chop can be misleading depending on how long between run, and time when plug is removed to check - kind of needs to be a "achieve state/ instantly kill engine/ pull plug to check" thing)
Perhaps can you clarify that the recorded afr numbers are in fact hovering in around the 11's zone during both initial and subsequent "Hot" runs where boost and power drops off?
Not sure your snap shot indicates it, but its helpful to log amongst other things, the ignition and sync - so that even slight interruptions initiating the wobble and power drop off can be noted in milliseconds at point of occurrence.
Surely you are almost where you need to be on the tuning - but if those model aircraft creep into your restful nighttime dreams maybe I should take your bike off your hands - wait a minute, way to far to ride her back to this side of the globe