Kawa Zed650/750 turbo

[zedturbo]

Nice find , congrats!

Have you seen these 2 for sale in Maastricht ?

Yeah! Just after I bought this one...
But yeah, I have 7 bikes now... enough is enough. I didnt want another one but a 750 turbo is getting rare and legendary so said F*CK the house rebuild budget im gonna get it.


So just a question to you guys...
I have now have two original plenums and one which I made 7 years back or something (jesis im only 33 and already feel ancient)...
Back then I wanted to have a center fed plenum with a smooth path to the intakes.

Right now I'm thinking... maybe install the stock ones and just make em side fed... easier access underneath and probably doesnt matter anyways since the big volume probably discontinues the airflow from the feed pipe anyways..

Whay do ya think... home made one on the big power 810 or OEM kawasaki with side fed pipe on the right side..

If I re-use the home made one I might add some velocity stacks inside to boost offboost torque a bit.

[Georgeturbo]

Awesome stuff.
Congrats on the purchase, you'll have fun with it.

George

[zedturbo]

Welll.... bought an original 750 turbo last week! It has a never started 810 kit, a brand new original turbo and the engine was rebuild up to the crank by a guy that has a classic superbike shop.
Normally I never trust other people working on engines, but yeah... hopefully they did it correctly.

Guy said it had an MLS gasket but from the side it looks like a copper gasket with some liquid shit on it. Although he said it was threebond...

Its not running yet and needs some work, so yeah, I'm going to install all the high power shit, IC and GT2056 from the z650 on this one as it has a fairing, and mount all the stock stuff and stock turbo on the z650.
Already ordered a GSXR1000 K7 swingarm + k7 red wheels... so next on the parts search list is a GSXR k6-k8 USD.

Cant wait to twist the throttle behind the fairing on the german Autobahn just across the border 10km from my house.

The attachment 750turbo.jpg is no longer available

So... this engine has been rebuild down to the crank shells on by a shop that specialises in classic zeds and other exotic racing bikes (and they get 160hp from old z900 lumps and stuff).

But yeah offcourse they don't know the specific things about these engines as it has NO ZR7 pump, no oil cooler bypass, no updated clutch dampers, the head and basegasket are coated in threebond and the headgasket looks copper. Everything else next to the engine is mounted loosely and looks a bit sloppy..

It has a brand new never-ran 810 kit.. bored and delivered by Jan Smit Powerparts.. the drag race legend.
But when I asked about what clearance it was set, the shop said... it was done by Jan Smit it will be fine (in other words they didnt check. )

What would you guys do.... tear down the engine and re-check everything?

I must say I'm a service engineer in electronics assembly pick & place robots and I'm quite critical so maybe I have trust issues for shops.. but yeh..its not easy to find spare rods.



I did get some upgrade-goodies already!! Still looking for a GSXR K6-K8 fork..

[Betterthanfabio]

You never know if what ur told is fact or fiction.
I have a GPZ900R I bought cheap that wouldn't start. Plug leads were around the wrong way!
It had supposedly had the engine split by a motorcycle mechanic to replace the starter clutch.
Now I'm not as fussy as you probably but the nut wasn't tightened on the starter shaft, there was enough silicon inside the engine that I'm sure it would have killed it within the first thousand miles. Had even oozed into one of the crank bearings!! Also there was a damaged rod that had enough clearance in the bottom end to drive a car through!
It'll play on your mind until you at least have a little peep inside i'm sure.
Maybe just take the head and sump off for a look see.

[Eckhard]

Dive in and do the upgrades as a minimum. It will save the engine. Once you can see what is there you can make the decision as to go ahead and split the cases. You probably should just to get peace of mind.

[zedturbo]

SO, bought some red gsxr1000 k5 wheels, a gsxr k6 swingarm and a gsxr1000 k5 fork. Nice gold one, with black legs (once you go black...) and radial r6 gold spot calipers.

Fork length is 71.5cm ...stock turbo fork is 81cm! jesus christ is this derived of a chopper model or what?
The ride height will change around 7cm if I calculated correctly as there are some rings on top of the stearing stem, so the stock fork top yoke is mounted 2.5-3cm above the top stem bearing.

Did anyone mount up a GSXR fork?

Other thing is, that it has a superbike top yoke.. normally I always mount those but on this bike with the fairing and all.... I guess its better if I sell it and mount up a stock top yoke with clip-ons...
Otherwise also the back-to-the-future lights on the top yoke need to be positioned elsewhere.

Other than this, I´m playing with the tought of just replacing the complete DFI system with a stand-alone one instead of adding a PC3 + Ignitech ignition controller.
Because there are some quite affordable (ms ripoff) kits with autotune, full ignition control and everything for sale nowadays at maybe a few 100 extra on top of those seperate modules. :-)

I want to be able to controll my ignition curve via MAP+MAT sensor (most MAP sensors have temperature integrated) so I can start to retard a few degrees at higher boost levels + higher temperatures. This makes a tremendous difference in peak cylinder pressure.
Under boost, combustion speeds up and the ideal point of complete combustion of 14 degrees past TDC moves closer to TDC causing higher peak pressure, added heath and possible detonation so ignition control is quite important.. On one of my other bikes I used an ignitech module + map sensor to control the ignition curve and it works fantastic.

Lots of plans!

[MrFluffy]

Yes, but GSXR1100M, all of the different models/years of gsxr forks are different lengths, the 1100m at 775mm and the kawasaki ZX9r are the two longest usd forks I could find outside of motorcross forks (I have gsxr11 on the turbo and zx9R forks on my 1100). The GSXR1100M suffer from a scuffing issue on the slider so are hard to find in good condition, but the zx9r do not so its a better alternative. I had to make a different wheel spindle because I mixed and matched to get matching wheel patterns, and a new steering stem to match the GPz frame of course. Also you were considering replacing the fuel computer, I did that also, my 1100 runs a original megasquirt 1 I soldered together myself in the first group buy, along with mallory magneto ignition so there's no kawasaki left in the electrics now. I have a ms3+msx on my z1 drag bike, and my 750 turbo will get a microsquirt or a ms2 when I get to the "needing a fuel computer" stage. You can reuse the original kawasaki cht sensor & I replaced the map with a gm map sensor if you do the same. I never interfaced to the spark as I didn't have those parts left, but VR pickup interfacing is easy with so many people doing MS now.
My gpz1100b2 with zx9 forks :-


I used to have a big chart with lots of different fork lengths on it to make swaps like this easier covering suzuki/yamaha/kawasaki etc, but since I took down the db of my site I cant find it yet until I fix that, but probably its on google somewhere if you search. In the meantime see here for PP's original suzuki length chart, reposted by katanamangler a while back. Or I can measure the zx9 forks I have spare if that helps?
http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/archives/cat ... ifications

Other than that, to make what you have work and not change your geometry too much from standard, you can make a stepped set of yokes up, and recover a lot of the length, but unless you have (free) access to a milling machine and free material to make them from, it won't be as cheap as finding longer forks instead.

[zedturbo]

Yes, but GSXR1100M, all of the different models/years of gsxr forks are different lengths, the 1100m at 775mm and the kawasaki ZX9r are the two longest usd forks I could find outside of motorcross forks (I have gsxr11 on the turbo and zx9R forks on my 1100). The GSXR1100M suffer from a scuffing issue on the slider so are hard to find in good condition, but the zx9r do not so its a better alternative. I had to make a different wheel spindle because I mixed and matched to get matching wheel patterns, and a new steering stem to match the GPz frame of course. Also you were considering replacing the fuel computer, I did that also, my 1100 runs a original megasquirt 1 I soldered together myself in the first group buy, along with mallory magneto ignition so there's no kawasaki left in the electrics now. I have a ms3+msx on my z1 drag bike, and my 750 turbo will get a microsquirt or a ms2 when I get to the "needing a fuel computer" stage. You can reuse the original kawasaki cht sensor & I replaced the map with a gm map sensor if you do the same. I never interfaced to the spark as I didn't have those parts left, but VR pickup interfacing is easy with so many people doing MS now.
My gpz1100b2 with zx9 forks :-


I used to have a big chart with lots of different fork lengths on it to make swaps like this easier covering suzuki/yamaha/kawasaki etc, but since I took down the db of my site I cant find it yet until I fix that, but probably its on google somewhere if you search. In the meantime see here for PP's original suzuki length chart, reposted by katanamangler a while back. Or I can measure the zx9 forks I have spare if that helps?
http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/archives/cat ... ifications

Other than that, to make what you have work and not change your geometry too much from standard, you can make a stepped set of yokes up, and recover a lot of the length, but unless you have (free) access to a milling machine and free material to make them from, it won't be as cheap as finding longer forks instead.

Nice 1100... got one of those as well... in parts with z1r tank, fairing and tail.

I have extended a few RWU forks by adding a spacer internally at the bottom of the compression cylinder. Looks like for the USD fork it's also possible, and probably has less an effect on torsion stiffness as they are super stiff already.

Should be +5cm then...

My fork also has a superbike top yoke... for this bike I think the clipons look better, but they will be very low if I mount them on the tube..
So on the hunt for some higher ones.

[MrFluffy]

You can get a few cm more travel by extending the internal damper rods on some models without loosing any rigidity at all, allowing them to come up slightly higher. With stepped yokes also it might be enough to recover lost length. Its not my personal experience in my own workshop but as it was posted by zed1015 who helped get the orient express funnybike rebuilt for nostalgia drag recently, I'd take that as a really strong indicator that its the way to do it. If I remember correctly he made slugs with male and female threads in them to extend the damper rods by 20mm or so.
We're probably talking of the same thing with different terms here.
There is a limit of course, so careful measurement on your fork internals is in order, but again I think you know this already.

[zedturbo]

You can get a few cm more travel by extending the internal damper rods on some models without loosing any rigidity at all, allowing them to come up slightly higher. With stepped yokes also it might be enough to recover lost length. Its not my personal experience in my own workshop but as it was posted by zed1015 who helped get the orient express funnybike rebuilt for nostalgia drag recently, I'd take that as a really strong indicator that its the way to do it. If I remember correctly he made slugs with male and female threads in them to extend the damper rods by 20mm or so.
We're probably talking of the same thing with different terms here.
There is a limit of course, so careful measurement on your fork internals is in order, but again I think you know this already.

Yeah I think there's two ways to do it.. you can extend the thin spindel rod that goes to top of the fork like you say, or put a spacer underneath the whole cartridge where the bolt on the bottom goes through.

I did the second one for a few CBR900 RWU forks, since its easy to make on the lathe.. :-)
But there is some compression adjustment stuff on the bottom of the fork and im not sure how it works.. so don't know if that would have any impact.

Before that I made some extended top caps, but that was not really nice and a lot of work.

I pressed out the steering stem and looking into fitting the gpz stem at the moment... so after thats done I'll look into extending it!

[zedturbo]

OK so my life was quite busy the last few years working internationally, buying a house and renovating that not having much time to work on projects.
Finally I have a workshop again and the house has progressed far enough (I don't have a wife anyways ) so I can spend some time on other stuff again that means time to pick up on the turbo project again.
There's a heatwave here at the moment (38 degrees and 100% humidity or something) and the only place to survive is my workshop, which is cool as it's more or less under my house.



So yesterday I fitted the GSXR K5 front fork, swingarm and wheels and that's looking promising.



I'm still deciding what to do with this project... I want it to be a street bike with a broad powerband range and retain the stock exhausts and stock air filter idea as much as possible (maybe just mod the filter area).
If its 150hp it's enough for me, i'd rather have a bit more bottom and midrange compared to 30hp extra up top. But I also have most of the upgrade and power-up parts available if necessary.

This bike has a brand new HT10-b, thinking it would be nice if I can keep it making everything fit just as intended and maybe just modifying that one internally. Except it's new so maybe a shame to mod...

On my z650 turbo I have a new GT2056 and a lot of other fast stuff as I went wild with that bike years ago. The GT2056 is also quite nice as it spools relatively fast as well and has a big compressor housing which runs efficiently at 15psi. I can also install the ht10b on the z650 and the GT2056 on the GPZ turbo, but then I need to adapt everything around it.
The lockup clutch I plan to move from the z650 to this one as well. And probably I will replace the electronics for a microsquirt system instead of going the PC3 way like before as it will give full controll over all engine parameters including (I assume) ignition depending on IAT and things like that.

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The Z650 turbo I want to make the turbo engine stock as well as to have it approved officially for road use and the huge power isn't very usefull on that fairingless bike anyways. So parts can be interchanged

What about the gpz1100 throttle bodies... I have them on the z650 but I always wondered if they actually give a power increase or just make the bike lug more below 5000rpm. The valve is smaller anyways so the only gain if any is that the intake tract tapers down into the intake runner, possibly improving a bit of flow at high air speeds but lowering the inertia-after filling effect at lower RPMs.

Decisions decisions...

The top yoke I'm not sure about yet, it came with the fork. I think I would prefer raised clip-ons like the Swatt ones for this bike.

117392498_1501996526666831_6812231257598071752_n.jpg (67.51 KiB) Viewed 6758 times

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Like that! I ran a similar setup a while on my Busa forks and loved it. Just did not look original so changed it. Did miss the way it felt while riding

[zedturbo]

Like that! I ran a similar setup a while on my Busa forks and loved it. Just did not look original so changed it. Did miss the way it felt while riding

I think it would be comfy when cruizing but sure turn the pilot into a wind-catcher as well. :-) On this bike I think I prefer the clip-ons look with the 80ies back to the future spaceship dashboard look... but they are quite expensive (the ones that are higher) so not sure yet.

By the way, do you know about any results running the (modded) HT10-B intercooled at 15psi? As its a small turbo you would expect it to create heat quite fast.
I'm seriously thinking about keeping the HT10B on the bike but I'm used to the GT2056 and never ran the HT10B before so not sure what to expect. It just looks so tiny

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Modified Billet HT10s intercooled or non on the owners bikes perform awesome. Do any have dyno numbers? I keep waiting for them myself. I know few have made pulls on fairly stock motors with 810s and made 155 to 170 on dyno at 15lbs. With billet compressor upgrade will flow as good if not better then the GT20. Use GT20 billet compressor wheels.

[gpzrfan]

"The top yoke I'm not sure about yet, it came with the fork. I think I would prefer raised clip-ons like the Swatt ones for this bike"

Myself I prefer clip on, I can recommend ABM multiclip units. I have them fitted on my a modified GPZ600R and one of my Turbo's , both fitted with bigger USD forks from ZXR400 and ZXR750

They have a lot of adjustment so you can get the bars to clear the fairing and they can be supplied for various fork diameter. Go for touring as it gives more height adjustment

German ebay example below

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Abm-Multiclip-T ... SwqwReoDoH