Kawa Zed650/750 turbo

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Hey check out Deerslayers post as he bought these neoprene dampers and they came apart in less than a 1000 miles I believe..messed up his Billet Turbo to boot and had to rebuild it..so use Steve's Vitons or Rogers' Delrin Dampers.


Slayers Post when neoprene's came apart
Looking good Charlie ! It's hard to believe how fast the damage is done !!!! That turbo was only run about 100 miles b4 the upgrades were made to the basket & O/P & R/V !! That's when I Discovered all the damper debris in the bottom of my pan ! Luckily it was only damper debris and NO metal ! The light in the shop made the Damper material look shiny like metal but it was only damper material !

Pic was unintentionally deleted


To the guys that are having turbos upgraded by Charlie I cannot stress enough the importance of the clutch basket rebuild and the oil pumps and relief valves in addition to the oil pan mods !!! Like I stated before there were only about 100 miles put on this turbo before I did the upgrade and it's obvious how much damage was done in a very short amount of time !! As far as the silicone on the dump tube I take full responsibility for that ! I did not have a gasket and had to make one and was worried about it leaking ! Rest assured I have multiple OEM gaskets on hand now !
Thanks again Charlie I'm looking forward to boosting up again just better! faster / more power !!

[zedturbo]

Hey check out Deerslayers post as he bought these neoprene dampers and they came apart in less than a 1000 miles I believe..messed up his Billet Turbo to boot and had to rebuild it..so use Steve's Vitons or Rogers' Delrin Dampers.


Slayers Post when neoprene's came apart
Looking good Charlie ! It's hard to believe how fast the damage is done !!!! That turbo was only run about 100 miles b4 the upgrades were made to the basket & O/P & R/V !! That's when I Discovered all the damper debris in the bottom of my pan ! Luckily it was only damper debris and NO metal ! The light in the shop made the Damper material look shiny like metal but it was only damper material !

To the guys that are having turbos upgraded by Charlie I cannot stress enough the importance of the clutch basket rebuild and the oil pumps and relief valves in addition to the oil pan mods !!! Like I stated before there were only about 100 miles put on this turbo before I did the upgrade and it's obvious how much damage was done in a very short amount of time !! As far as the silicone on the dump tube I take full responsibility for that ! I did not have a gasket and had to make one and was worried about it leaking ! Rest assured I have multiple OEM gaskets on hand now !
Thanks again Charlie I'm looking forward to boosting up again just better! faster / more power !!

Feck that doesnt sound/look good!! However... how many people have rebuild their clutches with neoprene? The guy I bought it from already did 11000kms with them.. so might be faulthy material from the supplier.

I will try to get viton ones and only do testrides to sort out my charging stuff and lockup etc...


Other question:
I have quite some case pressure. My engine got new rings when I built it years back and was fine at the time. Over the years I didnt get to ride it much due to a lot off electrical gremlins and some fueling issues. I never really pushed the bike hard or got oil or anything out of the breather. Bike also doesnt really smoke.

If during idling and revving a bit I keep my finger over the case breather and let it go after 5 seconds theres a small "pshhh" from a bit of pressure building. Do you guys have something like this or absolutely not? Maybe I'll do a compression check to be sure...

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Your right that the supplier out of AU I think made those neoprene dampers...I think he stopped selling them also. The turbo bikes may show the issue as it attacks the turbo bearings and well there gonna smoke like crazy...pour oil out the exhaust and all. Neoprene is not really rated for heat and oil so they break down easily as can be seen.

The crankcase pressure is normal and you will have this because your engine is turbocharged...so you have Base Pressure as you noticed when you put your finger in the whole..if you left it in there you would start smoking as oil would push thru your seals on the turbocharger pretty quickly. So this is all very normal no worries

[Hellooder]

As Charlie said damper break up will affect the turbo first and maybe only , i don't really know if will affect the rest of the engine as well so maybe NA engines will have know trouble at all although their oilpan may be filled with crap.

I hope you took off your oilpan too , if you did not the whole operation is pretty much useless. I didn't want to take it off at first because the little pan was clean and the little oilscreen too , which is often the first sign of damper failure. I took it off anyway after reading all the scary stories.......

[zedturbo]

As Charlie said damper break up will affect the turbo first and maybe only , i don't really know if will affect the rest of the engine as well so maybe NA engines will have know trouble at all although their oilpan may be filled with crap.

I hope you took off your oilpan too , if you did not the whole operation is pretty much useless. I didn't want to take it off at first because the little pan was clean and the little oilscreen too , which is often the first sign of damper failure. I took it off anyway after reading all the scary stories.......

I made a small vid of my old dampers... I'll upload it later to youtube as it doesnt seem to work here..

The old dampers were all in one piece, only shrunk a lot and they had a crack on the thin part.
I completely rebuild the engine as it was in pieces when I bought it, and I drove max 2000kms so I think the sump should be fine.

But you guys are scaring me so I will not ride the bike untill I get the viton ones...it has a brand new gt2056

[Charlie @ Evergreen]

Best thing to do really..cheap insurance against any particulate damage from the dampers as your are cracked and shrunk most likely also..they leave a small sludgy pile up in the front left side of the main pain. Looks like grey greasy mess lol...best part is you won't have to worry about them ever again so good move

[zedturbo]

Steves viton dampers are on the way! Its a shame it has to go apart again but the lockup needs longer bolts anyways...


Heres the old dampers..

I also ordered a zr7 stator.. lets hope that the output is like what they state in the workshop manual!

[Hellooder]

To be honest , the photo of the sump is from my highest mileage bike , 40.000+ km's. These dampers were completely crumbled and moved down under together with the gasket , it's a miracle the turbo survided this mayhem. The other bike has about 25.000 k's on the clock , they were also shrunken like yours. That sump i did not take off , maybe stupid , maybe not. I guess it's fine. . .

[zedturbo]

Ordered a dual temp gauge to measure before and after the intercooler. I'm curious to see what it does in real life so i'm just gonna measure and settle this once and for all..

[Georgeturbo]

It will be interesting to see the difference, where abouts are you going to place the sensors?

George

[zedturbo]

It will be interesting to see the difference, where abouts are you going to place the sensors?

George

Just on the end caps of the intercooler... and maybe another one on the plenum so I can later measure between intercooler-out and plenum.... check if the transfer pipe heats up next to the cylinders.

On my other bike (turbo cb750) I had a detonation problem in midrange.
So, I tried adding the intercooler to see if it would make a difference but it made no difference at all to the point the pinging started. I expected it to definitly move the onset of pinging but it didnt. Pinged at 8-10psi and still did it with intercooler. (mind u it spools at 3800rpm and has full boost at 5000rpm with gt17)
Lowering the compression to 8:1 made it possible to run 10psi and moved the pont of detonation to 12-13psi and retarding the ignition in the midrange from 30 to 25-23 degrees made it possible to run 15 psi on that bike.
So it had to do with the longer stroke (63mm) of the bike and the tame camshaft (0 degrees of overlap! ) which results in a high dynamic compression ratio (compression from intake valve closing - tdc). Compression induced detonation.. or something.

On the zed I have never heard detonation, even not at 1.5 bar boost.

But I think once you really are going into high boost and longer periods of boost then you maybe risk a charge temperature induced detonation and maybe pre-ignition so thats when the intercooler becomes important again I think.


By the way, I received the viton dampers so will install them this weekend. Shame I need to grind open the welds on the clutch again..

[zedturbo]

Viton dampers are installed.
And I made a new front fender..

Bike runs very good and starts to spool up at 4000rpm. But lowend has really little torque. If you ride through a corner in too low gear you just fall over.
At 1bar or higher it lifts the front easily in 2nd and it even came loose in 4th for a few cm... causing a bit of a speed wobble.

Intercooler in/out temperature gauge has arrived but didnt install it yet...

[zedturbo]

Welll.... bought an original 750 turbo last week! It has a never started 810 kit, a brand new original turbo and the engine was rebuild up to the crank by a guy that has a classic superbike shop.
Normally I never trust other people working on engines, but yeah... hopefully they did it correctly.

Guy said it had an MLS gasket but from the side it looks like a copper gasket with some liquid shit on it. Although he said it was threebond...

Its not running yet and needs some work, so yeah, I'm going to install all the high power shit, IC and GT2056 from the z650 on this one as it has a fairing, and mount all the stock stuff and stock turbo on the z650.
Already ordered a GSXR1000 K7 swingarm + k7 red wheels... so next on the parts search list is a GSXR k6-k8 USD.

Cant wait to twist the throttle behind the fairing on the german Autobahn just across the border 10km from my house.

[mankam]

Lucky man

[Hellooder]

Nice find , congrats!

Have you seen these 2 for sale in Maastricht ?