over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

Mine made 196hp at 23psi on the dyno with just heavy clutch springs. The springs came from Kibblewhite, and were intended for a Z1000. Just use five instead of six. They weren't red. I still have them somewhere. They were heavy at the lever, but usable for short road trips, or long trips I guess if you are one of those hand-crusher handshake kind of guys! It would show a little slip on the dyno, but I couldn't feel it. I used mineral oil throughout. We use mineral in Storm too, straight 50w - not that I would recommend that for road use.

For 200hp+ I used my home made lockup. Various people have made them over the years, including our own Grumpy, Mike Chestnut and MTC. Lockup is the way to go when you are over 150hp IMO. Below that I'd be happy with springs.
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
turbopat810
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by turbopat810 »

Hi fellas, does anyone know how to find a lockup clutch for my turbo...I think some of the forum members have built them in small numbers in the past...Would love to get one at a reasonable cost if possible..Thanks..Turbopat810...
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by FOURCED »

Same here. Would like to purchase if anyone has any leads or suggestions.

Thanks!
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Eckhard »

Are the plans for the lockup open source? Or does each have their particular design. I found a design on the net for a Suzuki but it would have to be adapted to fit a Turbo. I started on that but the effort fizzled out.
Eckhard

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DEATH_INC.
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by DEATH_INC. »

Because I'm different, I ran a barnett clutch (without any of the issues everyone said they cause) in mine 'till it broke some of the plates (I think it's due to the 'wobbly' loose basket they get) with 0 slippage at what was easily over 200hp. And I ran synthetic oil too. I've now got some special brew plates from some guy in Aussie that re-lined the stockers. They worked well for the short time it ran last time (still use the barnett springs).
Sorry, I don't know who it was, My mate got 'em done for Me, but it was well over 10 years ago now.
Fwiw, all the lockups have been way outta My price range. I really should sort My shit out and make one. One day. When I get the damn thing going again.
Rip Loosebruce and Daryl :(
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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

Eckhard wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:59 pm Are the plans for the lockup open source? Or does each have their particular design. I found a design on the net for a Suzuki but it would have to be adapted to fit a Turbo. I started on that but the effort fizzled out.
The lockup "hat", which is the plate with arms, is generic. It just needs to have the five mounting bolts on the correct PCD (pitch circle diameter). I think some Suzuki ones are correct. Z1000 ones are no good as I think they have six bolts.

The bespoke parts are the spacer to go under the clutch cover, and the clutch puller which needs to be longer by the same thickness as the spacer. The puller needs to be ground and hardened. Some Suzuki lockup pullers are very similar but I've never tried one to see if it works. The spacer can be cut out on a bandsaw if you're careful.

I have some time on my hands right now, let me see if I can pull some strings in the drag racing community.
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by FOURCED »

Kevin at MTC says he has something he can put together for us. Just need to send him the clutch.

We are on our own for the extended puller and cover spacer of course so maybe we can work up a group buy??
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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

He doesn't need the clutch sent, it's the same snowflake as the Z1000. I'm working on the spacer and puller but feel free to pursue your own suppliers.
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
longfiredragon
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by longfiredragon »

I am sure I don't make that much horsepower, and all clutch parts were replaced when the motor was rebuilt. But I took my clutch apart the other day and cleaned up the steels, checked all the thickness, cleaned up the housing etc.

Put a new clutch cable on and adjuster. It still slips.

Question, does it hurt anything to put washers behind or in front of the springs? And if so is there a known or approximate thickness of the washers?

Thanks.
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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

You can preload the springs a little with washers, but it's just a band aid really. Remind me what your clutch setup is?
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by FOURCED »

That's Great and count me in for Two of whatever you come up with Lorcan.
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Grumpy G »

I'm willing to make another batch, if there's enough of a demand.

G
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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

Grumpy G wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:37 am I'm willing to make another batch, if there's enough of a demand.

G
Well that's good news! I'd rather you do them. Shall I start a new thread to gather interest or would you prefer to do it?
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by johnb »

Had this very issue of the clutch slipping last weekend before the drags.
Just couldn't work out why the slipping, was never this bad.
I added machined spacers behind the clutch springs until the spring become bound and unable to pull the clutch lever in, still slipping.
Measured all plates and steel, but well within tolerance, changed to mineral oil, nope still slipping.
When rebuilding the clutch for the 4th time, I noticed the clutch puller was tight and under load, This I presume was limiting the pressure being applied to the pack, so added another plate to thicken the pack up, and bingo, no more slipping, 5 runs and although only ran 10.6 clutch was genius.
Saying that, put me down for one of your famous Grumpy lock-up clutches as I need lots more power.

Cheers JB
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Lorcan
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Re: over 200 hp engine.how you solve the clutch problem?

Post by Lorcan »

johnb wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:38 am I added machined spacers behind the clutch springs until the spring become bound and unable to pull the clutch lever in, still slipping.
Measured all plates and steel, but well within tolerance, changed to mineral oil, nope still slipping.
When rebuilding the clutch for the 4th time, I noticed the clutch puller was tight and under load, This I presume was limiting the pressure being applied to the pack, so added another plate to thicken the pack up, and bingo, no more slipping,
There isn't room to add another plate, unless you don't have them all in in the first place. Turbos have one more plate compared to the base model.
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
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