Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

How to make your turbo good as new, and keep it that way
Turbo125
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Turbo125 »

Your expertise and commitment is beyond question Charlie.
I am eager to get my valve and to park the turbo on the center stand :victory
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Turbo125 »

Charlie @ Evergreen wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:29 am Ok so after consulting not only with Parker but we have Porsche shops around the country and many are using this Parker valve with zero problems with some engines approaching 12 years old. With the way it is designed it can not stick closed and IF the spring inside did break it would be stuck open. So moving on with the line modifications.
Rob I am not sure what valve your Nortons use and what oil pressure they run at idle (guessing its about 10 lbs) as I do not know the Norton engine but these Parker valves are used on anything and everything from machining equipment to construction equipement race cars you name it. This company supplies most of this type of product for decades.
If you have some factual information about specifically Parker valves and failures please show us this info.

Moving on and will build the jig this weekend. Daves bike only has about 50 miles and the system works excellent.

Bout time we put this oil issue from these bikes to rest. :thumbup
By the way, at 50 miles second oil and filter change. Would be great to see if there are still minor debris from shattered dampers.
mach1970
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by mach1970 »

Hey Charlie. No, I do not specifically know the Parker Valve. Many people do use a spring type automatic valve on their Norton's (several companies make these), and they do fail on occasion. Obviously a much bigger problem on the engine versus the turbo. One you fry the whole engine and one just the turbo. However, I have been involved in the manufacturing field/repair field of major equipment for almost 30 years and the one thing that is a guarantee, is that it will fail. Nothing works forever. And I cannot tell you how many times I have a manufacturer tell me, "it can't fail that way", and then it does.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is not a worthwhile upgrade, I just wanted people to know about possible consequences. I appreciate all that you do to help us in the Turbo community.

Rob

P.S. On my Norton, I use a manual valve to shut off the oil supply. I then install a reminder on the fuel taps so I don't accidentally start the bike with the oil valve closed. Knock on wood, I haven't done it yet.
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Charlie @ Evergreen
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Charlie @ Evergreen »

Thanks for the response.
Everything mechanical has a what I call dead date just nature of engines & component parts. They will wear out. The facts gathered are more from again users of this valve running on $20k plus engines in Porsches with no issues 10 years plus. That safety record speaks enough they know this Parker valve and the company. Parker explained the design and it should IF fail stuck open not closed. Breakable part is the spring and again it is a light 5 psi spring.
You did not mention the oil pressure your Norton runs at idle? This itself could be a issue if the oil pressure is low and close to cracking pressure of the valve you are using. Sure you know those facts if you want to share. I would not put this on for instance a Z1RTC with the low oil pressure that engine develops at idle and 5 psi crack point. With the 750 oil pressure even stock pump is closer to 18 20 if in good order. Some have mentioned they had around 14 psi. That for me is to low to use line.
This line is gonna be recommended for only those upgraded with new ZR7S oil pump/RV so we know they have 28 to 30 psi idle hot.
I know not gonna convince you this will work but putting out facts that it should be extremely reliable for many years with no issues as proven by Porsche shops build there turbos for. Again the important part is if the valve fails it fails open not closed. '
Thanks for your input :thumbup

BTW since day one here I have backed up every turbo failure in the 750 community. With the damper/clutch fiber issues getting the turbos damaged from either not making the upgrades or not doing the quick two oil changes in 10 min and 50 miles. Even tho not my fault still back the turbos up. With the line installed that will not change.
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Lorcan
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Lorcan »

If you haven't seen it yet, Charlie's video can be viewed here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17039&p=185664#p185664
First to 200mph (2006) and still the fastest (211mph)
Quickest turbo-only 8.69 @ 162mph
mach1970
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by mach1970 »

Hey Charlie, you don't have convince me that it will work, I am not saying that it won't. In fact, I believe it is a good upgrade to do, if as you say, you have the oil pressure to support it. I am just pointing out something I have witnessed after years in the industry as well. Norton's do typically run some pretty low oil pressure at idle, especially when hot, so the Parker valve probably would not work for them.

I am curious about the Porsche angle though. I have 2 vintage air cooled 911's that I have restored and have never had an issue with wet sumping on them. Which Porsche's exhibit this issue and why?

Thanks,
Rob
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Charlie @ Evergreen
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Charlie @ Evergreen »

Thanks for the info. Believe oil pressure is a big factor that was more the issue then the valve. So question becomes what came first engine failure for lack of oil with such low pressure using a valve it should not or the valve sticking causing the issue? Lack of oil pressure as you know will kill any engine.

On the Porsche turbos there are several factors that can cause this issue. If you own one you know about the oil line setup with check ball. Some remove it. That will cause syphoning effect filling the turbo. The scavenge pump O Ring will harden and not be supple. The gyrator pump works but the oil has a light pressure from pump and it can not evacuate all the oil and it backs up into the turbo. Again leaking thru the seals. Usually the scavenge O Ring being replaced with a new one is the main cure for these but you also have some issues with certain oils. Porsche 993s which were designed without check valve systems like the 996 Porsche went to to prevent this issue also. The 993s is where most of the valves are used as this care also has lot of issues with oil flooding bearing housing of both turbos like the 750 can with turbos mounted to low. Again most of the kits on are twin turbo cars that did not have them but also are one cars with original 3LDZs from earlier models. We tend to do the turbocharger builds and do the lines at same time. Cover both bases for solid running car. Another part of the equation is the more miles on the engines seem to enhance this issue. Granted Mobil 1 is in Porsches replacement oil and its a commercial deal most likely this is in place but see more toasted burned carboned turbos running Mobil 1 then any oil. Did a turbo tech at a event few years back in Titusville with many owners and racers including Rolex drivers owners and when speaking with the Porsche shop owner his wall was lined with Mobil and asked how he liked it. Said thought no issues really seemed pretty good. Said he has a Cheyenne coming in next week with a possible turbo builds and leaking valve cover gaskets. Just lil damp but not running. Car smells like burning oil and consumption about qt per 900 miles. Make it short told him do a test. Switched oil and drove the car about hundred miles and the smell of burnt oil left. He also had come back in half way cleaned up the damp looking valve covers. Not wet now ? Go figure that I did not expect that. No smoke on startup or consumption was reported back after customer drove 1000 miles. Not sure what it is with mobil but it acts more like a penetrant then lubricant. Finding a way out. Couple guys put it in there 750s calling me with oil on floor next day and switched to Brad Penn Pennrite 20/50 and it also stopped the issue. Oils are really interesting to say least.
Anyways hope that was useful rambling.
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Loudviking
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Loudviking »

Brad Penn 20w50 is what I use and have not had any issues since starting to use it. :thumbup
mach1970
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by mach1970 »

Hey Charlie,

Thanks for the Porsche info. Both mine are naturally aspirated so I guess that's why I don't see this problem. As for the Norton's, it was definitely the valve that failed and then caused the engine failure. There are several aftermarket companies selling valves for the Norton's, and they have all failed eventually. I have tested them when I got the engine for rebuild and the valve was stuck shut and would not open, resulting in loss of oil flow to engine, and you can tell the engine damage was a result of lack of oil. I always warn owners not to install these auto valves on their Norton's. Ride the bike more often and you won't have a problem. Or before you start it, drain the sump. It only takes a few minutes. Better then spending the money for an engine rebuild.

Thanks again for the info, very interesting. And you are correct, oil sometimes is amazing how different oils will act differently.

Rob
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Charlie @ Evergreen
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Charlie @ Evergreen »

Very good info there you should tell us the name of that valve so NO one uses it on any application. The valve you mention sounds like it is a very bad design to fail like that. Not all valves are created equally as you know. I am very confident getting facts from my Porsche guys that this is not a issue here even they asked why are you so concerned when already told you how good there lines work and no issues on any engine installed on. So as the open book I am with them and here I look into anything I would put people's hard earned money with facts.

On to the Jig. All finished and built the first line with the setup.
The oil line in jig is OEM when we usually recondition the line to send back.
Then we clean the line to raw medal cut the length's install the valve assembly.
Re Coat the Line in last pic.

When you are ready to have your line upgraded you will need to email me (evergreenturbo@aol.com) and ship to get upgraded.
Line upgraded with new valve is $90.00 plus shipping.
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Turbo125
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Turbo125 »

Got it!
Fantastic Charlie!!
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Charlie @ Evergreen
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Charlie @ Evergreen »

Few of the pieces working on to make a complete replacement line. Will run around front and down under with check valve all using AN fittings/braided line. Will update when get more fittings in to set up Jig for this line.
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Charlie @ Evergreen
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Re: Turbo Oil LIne Check Valve

Post by Charlie @ Evergreen »

Upgraded OEM line with Parker Check Valve on Wade's HT10 Billet build.
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