Interesting methanol bike

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Interesting methanol bike

Postby Lorcan » Tue May 01, 2007 8:14 pm

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Postby Ninjaboy » Wed May 02, 2007 1:09 am

Nice find Lorcan, very interesting...
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Postby Piney Power » Wed May 02, 2007 3:06 am

Prof. MacCarley responded to my email with the following:

Trent- I'd be happy to share any info I have, and how to I did the
conversion. It's been a science project for many years.

In brief...
Injectors designed for a '71 Volkswagon Type 3. Be sure to get X-body
injectors which were designed to be gasohol tolerant. Mallory 100 psi
Stainless Steel racing fuel pump. Primary and added secondary fuel
filters - high pressure automotive parts. Use hydraulic lines or
Aeroquip braided steel lines for all hoses rather than regular fuel
lines - these are alcohol tolerant. Custom made variable fuel pressure
regulator with range from 18 psi (for gas) to 72 psi (for methanol). My
own oxygen-sensing feedback control fuel injection controller, that
modifies the duration of the stock ECU's injection pulse. Since the
fuel pump draws 7 amps while the stock pump only draws 3.5, I had to
re-wrap the stator to provide higher electric power output. This was
more power than the shunt voltage regulator could handle, so I designed
my own series-type switching regulator, which is much more efficient -
saves a full 1 horsepower at 10,000 RPM. Adjustable wastegate on turbo
using pressure proportioning valve. My own LED gages for fuel delivery
and exhaust oxygen. Home-made butane fumigation system for cold
starting. Otherwise a stock E1.

Just about ready to do an 810 overbore on it.

If you do the conversion, let me know - I'd be interested in your
experience. I've driven it over 20,000 miles on methanol or M85 (85%
methanol).

Best wishes,
Art
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A little more information about M85

Postby Piney Power » Wed May 02, 2007 3:17 am

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Postby dazbo » Wed May 02, 2007 8:23 am

My
own oxygen-sensing feedback control fuel injection controller, that
modifies the duration of the stock ECU's injection pulse.

by far the most interesting part of this project i reckon,id definatly be interested in how this is being done.
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Postby Piney Power » Wed May 02, 2007 1:07 pm

>> What are you using as a modified fuel injection controller?
>
> I retained the stock ECU but modify the fuel injection with a controller
> of my own design. It continuously adjusts the pulse duration based upon
> the O2 feedback, like all cars that have 3-way catalytic converters.
> The challenge in designing an )2 feedback controller for an engine linke
> this is the extremely low engine inertia - it can rev from 150 to 10,000
> RPM in less than a second. This prevents the use of the usual real-time
> control since the engine state changes to quickly. I solve this problem
> with a "learning" algorithm that updates cells in the engine map
> whenever the engine is in steady state in that cell for more than one
> second. Again, this is similar to usual automotive practice, but the
> problem is more challenging with a MC engine.
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Postby Piney Power » Wed May 02, 2007 5:14 pm

Does the PC have an O2 sensor input??
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Postby Lorcan » Wed May 02, 2007 7:49 pm

No, and running closed loop brings it's own difficulties as the Prof says.
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Postby Art » Thu May 17, 2007 8:55 am

Re: Posted by dazbo "by far the most interesting part of this project i reckon,id definatly be interested in how this is being done."

Hopefully during the summer, I'll pull together something worth posting about the details of the controller, the only novel aspect being the software. I built it in 1998 and didn't document much formally. It's just a 68HC12EVBU in a box, coded in assembly. I had hoped to some day clean it up and make it into a product, but now there's a number of excellent "remapping" controllers on the market. Like mine, these usually work by intercepting the injection pulse from the original ECU, and modifying its length. I've seen some discussion in this forum about the Power Commander, that I assume works this way (I don't have one). The only thing different (I think) about my box is the use of O2 feedback to maintain a stoichiometric A/F ratio, like all modern cars. On cars this allows the use of a 3-way catalyst. In my case, it helps adapt to whatever stuff I have in the tank, like other flex-fuel vehicles, but with a wider adaptive range since I can also adjust the fuel rail pressure manually (while driving).

I haven't tried it, but the popular Megasquirt EFI kit now incorporates O2 sensing, which should do the same job, although I might have some concerns about how well it would track stoich for a low-interia motorcycle engine. See http://www.megasquirt.info/

If max power is the objective, this is not the right approach. I'm not an expert on tuning, but I understand that for maximum power on methanol, the mixture is usually set as rich as the engine will tolerate. Indy cars and top fuelers drink fuel like a fire hose. For a turbocharged engine, this also takes advantage of the high latent heat of vaporization of the fuel to provide an "intercooler-like" effect. By comparison, a stoichiometric mixture helps to minimize emissions and maximize fuel economy, especially with unknown fuel blends.

BTW, other than the well-known lean spot off-throttle, the bike runs fine on methanol, ethanol, or whatever using just the stock ECU without any injection pulse adjustment. In fact, for max performance, it almost surely runs better, provided that the fuel rail pressure is dialed in. Even my algorithm goes open-loop rich at full throttle in the interest of power.
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Postby Lorcan » Thu May 17, 2007 9:28 am

Art wrote:
If max power is the objective, this is not the right approach. I'm not an expert on tuning, but I understand that for maximum power on methanol, the mixture is usually set as rich as the engine will tolerate. Indy cars and top fuelers drink fuel like a fire hose. .


That's not quite true, but as with gasoline maximum power is on the rich side of stoich (approx 12.5:1 for gasoline and 5:1 for methanol). Methanol, however, has the ability to withstand overfuelling by approx 50% without misfire. Just like gasoline though, it will not make more power when overfuelled, and just like gasoline it will detonate when run weak. Coincidentally, the injectors used in my methanol bike came from an Indy car. Top Fuel cars/bikes run on nitromethane which is a different subject entirely, but Top Methanol dragsters certainly make use of the intercooling effect. Some even run a percentage of methanol through the supercharger in a bid to raise it's efficiency.
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Postby turbobirdy » Thu May 17, 2007 1:43 pm

That's all very facinating, but just to get it back down to my level, I liked the bit where he says:
"The problem is remedied by manual agitation (jumping up and down on the bike)." Usually works for me, and if not I sometimes employ the 'non-automated random mass impact approach' (hitting it with a hammer) :P

P.S. I'm just jealous really.
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Postby Lorcan » Thu May 17, 2007 3:29 pm

Is this your annual post Chris? :D
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Postby FastFerret » Thu May 17, 2007 4:27 pm

Lorcan wrote:Is this your annual post Chris? :D


Funny how you never see Chris and Superman at the same time? :o :?
There's more besides, joyrides and a little house in the countryside.
Get the balance right.
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Postby turbobirdy » Thu May 17, 2007 5:11 pm

Lorcan wrote:Is this your annual post Chris? :D


Sorry, I can't reply to that until next year. :P
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Postby Lorcan » Thu May 17, 2007 5:13 pm

Ha, that's two posts in one year! Steady... :D
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